So I saw Captain America: The Winter Soldier last night, and it got me thinking about superhero movies and stuff about DC and Marvel, so I thought I'd talk a little bit about them..
Big disclaimer here: These are my opinions. I am going to be blunt about them because I get pretty passionate about these movies. It's perfectly fine if you like a movie that I didn't or if you disagree with me on certain points. Also, keep in mind that my knowledge of comics comes mostly from the movies and a little bit of research for fun. I haven't really read DC or Marvel comics. I am a fan of both DC and Marvel by the way, so this isn't a partisan attack for either side.
Also, there will probably be spoilers here, besides Captain America: The Winter Soldier probably because that just came out, but I'm just warning you that if you care about spoilers for past superhero movies, then DO NOT READ FURTHER!
Now then...
I loved the new Captain America movie. It's better than the original, which I liked as well. If you like superhero movies, I recommend it because the events that occur during it will shape the landscape of Marvel movies for years to come.
But something is really bothering me. Almost all the good superhero movies that have come out recently have been Marvel. Where is DC?
Marvel is a movie making machine. They are like rabbits multiplying. Not only that, but most of their recent superhero movies have been great. Sure there have been some hiccups. *cough* Iron Man 3 *cough* But for the most part, Marvel has been solid, and more than that, they have a well orchestrated plan of attack and they have delivered. They have movies planned into the next decade at least!
So I ask again, where is DC? What in the world are they doing that's so important that they've let Marvel had the field all to themselves?
Another Batman movie. Another Superman movie.
Marvel may have had its screw ups, but they at least are zooming around the track and have their head in the game. DC hasn't even put its foot on the gas pedal.
Why do I say this? Do I hate Batman or Superman? No! But look at what Marvel is doing with it's movies and now its TV show Agents of Shield, they are creating a universe with stories that are intimately linked to one another and broadening their scope to give even their lesser known heroes and villains a place in their shared universe. Ten years, no one seriously thought that Marvel could make an Avengers movie work. There are just two many pieces you have to movie together, and if it falls flat then you've ruined your chance at making it for at least a generation.
Then Iron Man happened. It was a great film in its own right and established the character well. Then after the credits, out of nowhere, Samuel Jackson appeared to tell Tony Stark about the Avengers Initiative. All bets were off and it was going to happen. Marvel was going to try to do the impossible, and you know what? They did it. The Avengers was awesome and they continue to impress with their boldness, especially after the second Captain America movie.
On the other hand, DC hasn't made a non-Batman or Superman movie in decades besides Green Lantern (and that movie sucked). Why? Because they're scared. They know that if they keep remaking Batman every few years, they will rake in millions because of the Batman brand. Same with Superman, even if the movies are terrible. They have been totally unwilling to branch out to other equally popular DC heroes because they might not make quite as much money as if they just stuck with their two cash cows. They aren't taking risks and Marvel knows it. They're rubbing it in their faces.
Here's an example: Wonder Woman. How great would it be if DC came out with a Wonder Woman movie that rocked? They would blow everything out of the water. The one thing Marvel has yet to do it make a movie with a strong female lead. Black Widow may be a kickass female character, but she has never been the center of the action. If done well, a Wonder Woman movie would make huge amounts of money for DC because you'd get all the regulars to these kinds of movies, but Wonder Woman could potentially draw in a huge female audience that Black Widow just doesn't because Wonder Woman is a much better role model for little girls and teens. Besides, Wonder Woman has a rich backstory that could be used in so many cool ways. How has DC responded to this in the past? They've said they can't do it right now because they "want to get it right".
Meanwhile, Marvel's next movie, The Guardians of the Galaxy, stars a talking raccoon and a living tree. And it's going to be awesome. DC you really can't make a movie about a hero with lady parts? Really? Come on.
I understand their desire to get the movie right, but that doesn't give them a blanket excuse to never make a movie that doesn't star Batman or Superman. At some point DC, you have to get off your ass take the leap of faith. Your fans will reward you.
I have some hope that they will be taking this advice, given that they have a Wonder Woman cast for Man of Steel 2, but it's really not enough. Step out of the box you've placed yourself in. The water's fine. I know you can do better. I want you to do better. You have a vast array of superheroes and villains to work with and there's plenty of story to tell that doesn't include Batman or Superman.
I wanted to talk about DC's most recent flub titled, That One Time They Tried to Make Superman an Emo Teenager (a.k.a. Man of Steel), but I've already typed a bunch and I am hungry. Maybe next time.
Big disclaimer here: These are my opinions. I am going to be blunt about them because I get pretty passionate about these movies. It's perfectly fine if you like a movie that I didn't or if you disagree with me on certain points. Also, keep in mind that my knowledge of comics comes mostly from the movies and a little bit of research for fun. I haven't really read DC or Marvel comics. I am a fan of both DC and Marvel by the way, so this isn't a partisan attack for either side.
Also, there will probably be spoilers here, besides Captain America: The Winter Soldier probably because that just came out, but I'm just warning you that if you care about spoilers for past superhero movies, then DO NOT READ FURTHER!
Now then...
I loved the new Captain America movie. It's better than the original, which I liked as well. If you like superhero movies, I recommend it because the events that occur during it will shape the landscape of Marvel movies for years to come.
But something is really bothering me. Almost all the good superhero movies that have come out recently have been Marvel. Where is DC?
Marvel is a movie making machine. They are like rabbits multiplying. Not only that, but most of their recent superhero movies have been great. Sure there have been some hiccups. *cough* Iron Man 3 *cough* But for the most part, Marvel has been solid, and more than that, they have a well orchestrated plan of attack and they have delivered. They have movies planned into the next decade at least!
So I ask again, where is DC? What in the world are they doing that's so important that they've let Marvel had the field all to themselves?
Another Batman movie. Another Superman movie.
Marvel may have had its screw ups, but they at least are zooming around the track and have their head in the game. DC hasn't even put its foot on the gas pedal.
Why do I say this? Do I hate Batman or Superman? No! But look at what Marvel is doing with it's movies and now its TV show Agents of Shield, they are creating a universe with stories that are intimately linked to one another and broadening their scope to give even their lesser known heroes and villains a place in their shared universe. Ten years, no one seriously thought that Marvel could make an Avengers movie work. There are just two many pieces you have to movie together, and if it falls flat then you've ruined your chance at making it for at least a generation.
Then Iron Man happened. It was a great film in its own right and established the character well. Then after the credits, out of nowhere, Samuel Jackson appeared to tell Tony Stark about the Avengers Initiative. All bets were off and it was going to happen. Marvel was going to try to do the impossible, and you know what? They did it. The Avengers was awesome and they continue to impress with their boldness, especially after the second Captain America movie.
On the other hand, DC hasn't made a non-Batman or Superman movie in decades besides Green Lantern (and that movie sucked). Why? Because they're scared. They know that if they keep remaking Batman every few years, they will rake in millions because of the Batman brand. Same with Superman, even if the movies are terrible. They have been totally unwilling to branch out to other equally popular DC heroes because they might not make quite as much money as if they just stuck with their two cash cows. They aren't taking risks and Marvel knows it. They're rubbing it in their faces.
Here's an example: Wonder Woman. How great would it be if DC came out with a Wonder Woman movie that rocked? They would blow everything out of the water. The one thing Marvel has yet to do it make a movie with a strong female lead. Black Widow may be a kickass female character, but she has never been the center of the action. If done well, a Wonder Woman movie would make huge amounts of money for DC because you'd get all the regulars to these kinds of movies, but Wonder Woman could potentially draw in a huge female audience that Black Widow just doesn't because Wonder Woman is a much better role model for little girls and teens. Besides, Wonder Woman has a rich backstory that could be used in so many cool ways. How has DC responded to this in the past? They've said they can't do it right now because they "want to get it right".
Meanwhile, Marvel's next movie, The Guardians of the Galaxy, stars a talking raccoon and a living tree. And it's going to be awesome. DC you really can't make a movie about a hero with lady parts? Really? Come on.
I understand their desire to get the movie right, but that doesn't give them a blanket excuse to never make a movie that doesn't star Batman or Superman. At some point DC, you have to get off your ass take the leap of faith. Your fans will reward you.
I have some hope that they will be taking this advice, given that they have a Wonder Woman cast for Man of Steel 2, but it's really not enough. Step out of the box you've placed yourself in. The water's fine. I know you can do better. I want you to do better. You have a vast array of superheroes and villains to work with and there's plenty of story to tell that doesn't include Batman or Superman.
I wanted to talk about DC's most recent flub titled, That One Time They Tried to Make Superman an Emo Teenager (a.k.a. Man of Steel), but I've already typed a bunch and I am hungry. Maybe next time.
Marvel did have Elektra....but the movie was....ehh.
ReplyDeleteThere is a Black Widow movie coming out next year I believe. And I don't think the problem with a movie about BW will be that she isn't as good a role model as WW. The problems will be in the marketing and the actual quality of the movie as well as the decision of who to target the movie to. Black Widow is a dark character, she has her humor and gentle moments but a lot of her character deals with her past and the moral ambiguity she deals with. So, you can't force her into a mold that fits a kid-dominant audience - well, you can, but you will have to make compromises that might flatten the movie (and honestly, not everything needs to be for the kiddies, even with superheroes). Then there's the fact that despite Iron Man and Avengers, WW is still a better known character - especially for adults who are the ones who ultimately decide what their kid goes to watch in many cases. Gahd, so much of this stuff really is marketing. It needs to be well put together from writing to directing, but it also needs to be hyped and marketed. So much.
I'm hoping the company will give the movie its full support with marketing etc, like it has done with the other intertwining Marvel movies. Because I'll be damned if they screw this up with one of my favorite comic book characters and then adopt the attitude "Well we tried, clearly movies with female leads can't work!" which is exactly the attitude the production companies will adopt a lot of the time when they see female-lead movies fail. Because yay sexism.
....hence no WW movie either. Also there seems to be a profound lack of creativity since it's been brushed off by saying it's "too hard" to adapt into a movie. (and yet that space raccoon seems to be so easy! I WONDER WHY. HMMM. Oh, right, because ladies eeeew...) (I mean, some production companies actively do not want a female audience, and it's 2014.) They could so easily do what the first Cap movie did and go with a period piece. They could go with just about anything!
A part of the problem with DC movies might also be the ownership of film rights. As I understand they have some issues with different film companies owning film rights to different characters so making intertwining movies or even new movies with some characters will be hard. IDK, I don't even remember when I heard this stuff so take that with a grain of salt. But DC sure would have many good female characters to introduce on film. Marvel might be going more haywire with this because they are now a part of Disney. The marketing jockey of a company who will try to make products out of everything.
......also I saw Winter Soldier on Saturday and I loved it. Despite the dumb exposition computer scene. And now I'm back to impatiently waiting for the next Avengers movie. WS really made me sit there in wonder because they've made 8 movies that connect to each other in some way and none of them suck! Some of them might be blah (I for example didn't much like Thor 1, Iron Man 1 & 3) but I can't call any of them bad! I wanna say good job!
Actually DC owns all of the film rights to their heroes (at least all of the main ones). Marvel is the one that started selling off film rights for major characters to other companies.
DeleteYeah, BW is a very different character than WW, and that's perfectly fine. I would love to see both have their own movie. I think Marvel may be in the process of getting ready to do a BW movie, but it's not on the schedule right now. At least not that I could find on the internet. At least BW has been all over the Marvel movies. DC hasn't touched WW with a 10-ft. pole in decades, which is just stupid in my opinion. The more broadly you cast your net, the more wide your target audience is.
I guess I just want DC to get its act together so I can fanboy about great DC movies and not just Marvel ones. I feel like I know DC so much more than Marvel and yet they aren't there yet. It's sad that these companies are so reluctant to give of a female lead.
And Man of Steel... bleh.
Really? Weird, because internet was raving about it only a couple of months ago, though the 2015 bit might have been a bit too premature. BW movie is in fact in production but it is in early development as far as internet seems to know, which means it could happen but it could also not happen.
DeleteI think happening is likely though since BW is gonna have a bigger part even in the next Avengers movie which dwells into the Age of Ultron thing as I understand. (Here are some links to articles: 1, 2, 3, 4)
When it comes to WW: a while back I actively listened to a podcast called Schmoes Know, they talk about film and show development a lot, interviewing people from producers to actors, talking about th process, and they've been involved in the business as well. They once had a podcast episode where they and a guest talked about how WW actually did come relatively close to happening. As I remember, there had been a script, there was some serious production consideration going on but then the company decided that the script wasn't good enough and it was all plunged into a production limbo even when there was a better script waiting etc. It was a mess.
But yeah, more decisiveness is needed with WW and it's disgusting how reluctant all production companies are with female lead movies.
There seems to be a nice blog post about superhero film rights here
I'm interested to see how Batman vs Superman is going to fly. They've said that Wonder Woman is going to be in that... so I don't know if that's just a lets test the waters and see how well this is going to work. That being said I'm not a real big Zach Snyder fan... he's done a lot of things that have made me cringe over the years.
ReplyDeleteAnd yeah, Winter Soldier was awesome. I just got back from seeing it (Finally). I wasn't too fond of the first Captain America movie and this one was a definite improvement.
I think part of the problem with DC is that they're so late on the band wagon. When they released Batman Begins superhero movies weren't as popular as they are right now (and I blame that fully on the brilliance of Marvel's marketing) so they went with the whole Batman is the only hero in this world etc etc. DC has a lot of catching up to do if they want to achieve the level of world building that Marvel has... and I think the thing that is going to hold them back is the effort that will need to be put into it. Marvel's universe is years in the making and having something to that level for DC is not going to happen overnight.
But all we can do is wait and see.
ALSO kind of related. I totally want to cosplay the winter soldier now. This is something that is going to have to happen.
you could totally cosplay like.. a genderbent bucky! I've seen some really cool genderbending cosplay going on with Winter Soldier!
DeleteThat's true. They were late to the bandwagon and Marvel has had an absolute beast of a marketing campaign. It's not going to happen overnight, I just want it to happen eventually. I want my Justice League damn it! haha
DeleteI don't know if I've seen anything by Zach Snyder that isn't Man of Steel, but I wasn't impressed by that so... I hope they don't screw up Batman vs. Superman. I also hope that they don't over crowd the next movie with superheroes trying to get to a Justice League movie too fast. That'll ruin it all.